Inside the hallowed, echoey halls of the Washington National Cathedral, two governors from opposite sides of the aisle attempted to answer a question plaguing the American electorate: Is there a way back from the brink?
Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro (D) and Utah Governor Spencer Cox (R) joined NBC News’ Savannah Guthrie for the “Toward a Better Politics” forum, a conversation that aired Tuesday evening.
While the setting was serene, the diagnosis of the American political landscape was grim, marked by a shared concern over rising political violence and a sharp, albeit civil, disagreement on how to handle the algorithms fueling the division.
The “Market Failure” of Modern Politics
Both governors acknowledged that political violence has ceased to be a partisan issue, morphing instead into a societal contagion. Shapiro was blunt in his assessment of those who turn to weaponry to settle ideological scores.
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“When you pick up a gun and try and shoot someone, you are not sane and rational and a linear thinker,” Shapiro said, rejecting the urge to categorize shooters strictly by political ideology.
The conversation took a somber turn as the leaders cataloged a recent string of high-profile violence, ranging from the murder of Minnesota Speaker Hortman to attacks on conservative figure Charlie Kirk and assassination attempts against the President. Shapiro argued that the current political ecosystem lacks the “moral clarity” required to stop the bleeding, accusing national leadership of cherry-picking which violence to condemn based on party lines.
“That is gasoline on the fire,” Shapiro warned.
Governor Cox, citing polling data, suggested that the public is well ahead of the politicians in their desire for a ceasefire. He noted that 70% of Americans are part of an “exhausted majority,” desperate for a shift in tone.
“Neither party is interested in addressing that market failure right now,” Cox said. He argued that elected officials are merely a reflection of the electorate, suggesting that until voters stop rewarding “boorish behavior” and screaming, Washington has no incentive to change.
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Social Media: The New Opioid Crisis?
The most animated segment of the night arrived when Guthrie pivoted to the engine behind the division: social media. She noted that Americans are effectively being “groomed for rage.”
Governor Cox did not hold back, leveling a scorching indictment against tech giants. He dismissed the idea that the polarization is accidental, accusing companies of intentionally monetizing the destruction of mental health and civic stability.
“These are the wealthiest and most powerful companies in the history of the world. And they’re profiting off of destroying our kids and destroying our country,” Cox said. “These are the opioid companies of the early 2000s. There is no difference.”
Cox pointed to the mental health crisis among teenagers—citing anxiety, depression, and suicide—as collateral damage in the tech industry’s pursuit of “dopamine addiction.”
A Golden Opportunity to Disagree
The forum lived up to its title when the conversation turned to solutions for the tech crisis. When Guthrie asked if the governors supported a ban on social media for children under 16—similar to recent legislation in Australia—the bipartisan unity fractured, offering a real-time demonstration of respectful disagreement.
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Cox offered full-throated support for a ban: “100% I would support that.”
Shapiro, however, demurred. While acknowledging the harm, the Pennsylvania Democrat argued for a strategy focused on digital literacy and accountability rather than prohibition.
“I don’t know that I’d support that,” Shapiro said. He outlined a plan involving education in classrooms to teach students to separate fact from fiction and using the legal system to force companies to change their practices. “They should not be given carte blanche… there have to be some controls on what they do.”
Cox pushed back, arguing that the damage is too severe for half-measures. “We don’t give ’em driver’s licenses when they’re 12… because it can take their life,” Cox countered, citing data that shows behavioral problems drop and test scores rise in schools where phones are banned.
Despite the policy gap, the tone remained civil—a rarity in modern discourse. For an hour in the cathedral, the focus remained not on who was winning the argument, but on whether the country could survive the fight.
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